Pushing Too Hard Pt 2

Pat Cadell is one of those Democrats who doesn’t BS, he calls them as he sees them. And he’s right on the money here. And elitist class has taken over the Democrat party and they don’t care what the voters think The way they rammed Obamacare though is proof of that.

The judge in California overturning the Prop 8 vote yesterday is another sign of a minority overriding the voters wishes. While a lot of people are hooting and hollering and cheering what the judge did, they have no idea the problem it’s going to cause. There is a lot of rage building out there. People feel they are not being heard. The majority of voters are making their feelings heard and they are being told to shut up.

No matter what elites may think, the people they govern can, and will, tear them down if they are motivated. The elites can lie to them all they want. They can spin things all they want, but if they push the public too hard, if they lie too much, there will be payback.

Personally, I am neutral on the Prop 8 issue. I understand both sides arguments. But ultimately, the voters decided and when a minority pushes their way against the majority the way they have, it will not be good for the minority in the long run. Backlashes can be ugly, terrible things.

Think about it, cities are broke, they can’t pay cops. In some cities it’s said criminals are running around loose. The borders are becoming war zones. We’re on the borderlines of anarchy here. People who think they can hide behind the government fail to understand the government isn’t as powerful as it lets on. It can’t be everywhere and it’s resources are limited. If it was so powerful it would have solved all the problems that plague us. The government only makes many problems worse.

I hope we can all get along, but we’re entering into rough waters now. The election in November will be something to behold. And if they try to mess with it, look out.

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  1. Jim, I think you missed the point: Prop 8 has been ruled unconstitutional — and it's one of the best-written judicial opinions I've read. The Founding Fathers set up our government to PREVENT mob rule, majority rule. The voters were wrong. Period. Now let's see what the 9th Circuit says.

  2. I didn't miss the point, but the judge did. There is nothing in the constitution guaranteeing marriage to anyone, straight or gay. It says nothing about marriage. It does enumerate states rights and the states are the ones who decide these things. The voters get to make state laws in California. The judge over ruled 7 million voters.

    Many of the judge's arguments were not very sound. But this isn't really my fight, I don't care about it either way. I just care about the fact that once again, voters in California are having their will stomped on.

    Mob rule has nothing to do with it. The people for traditional marriage are not a mob. Gay marriage wasn't even an issue until the last decade. No civilization has ever had it before. Even the gay friendly Romans and Greeks didn't even consider it.

  3. James, mob rule has everything to do with it – it's always someone trying to bully the minority. And the fact that you state you have no comment either way show a lack of moral backbone. The law used to prevent blacks from marrying whites, so don't give me the “marriage hasn't changed since antiquity” argument. You can fly the space shuttle through the holes in that argument.

  4. Seriously, that is why I hate this subject. You talk about bullying. The people who feel this is some kind of moral right, attack anyone who disagrees with them as evil oppressors and some other nonsense. They try to destroy their businesses and reputations. The way they have gone after people who dare disagree is real “bullying”. It's more like fanaticism of the fascist kind.

    Marriage isn't a right. It's a legal contract. It is whatever the state says it is. People gay and straight have had common law marriages forever. No one can stop them. This argument that people just want to love each other is lame. No one is stopping them. A lot of people will tell you from experience marriage is not about love. Love is beyond such things. It either exists between two people or it doesn't. The state has no business regulating that.

    A state marriage is a property rights issue, mainly related to inheritance and children. Since gays can't have children in the biological way, they weren't considered until some people decided all of a sudden it's a moral issue.

    Don't be calling me a coward because I disagree with you on this. I have nothing against gay marriage. I am fine with it. What I have an issue with is the fact that voters wishes are being ignored by elites who are deciding which way things are going to be without even considering what the public decided. If they let things take their natural course, it would have worked out over time. Instead they are inciting a backlash.

    That was my concern in this article. But let me be clear, as a libertarian, I am against the state over riding the people's wishes with such little consideration.

    Since we live in a society where supposedly the voters have a right to decide things, then they should be able to do that. That is what I care about.

    You're focusing on the micro, I am focusing on the macro problem. This is another wedge issue being exploited.

  5. An even better way to put it is, what if the law had passed instead and a judge over ruled it. Would you use your same mob argument then? It could very well have happened.

    What's at stake here is judicial activists deciding the law against the will of the people.

  6. The blunt fact is that the bond between a male and a female is special physically, and has been so intellectually since humans developed complex, abstract-thought intelligence. That bond, historically called “marriage,” cannot be legislated either into or out of existence. The judge just looks like a fool for trying to prove in his “99 theses” that a circle is a square. He should have stuck to his equality clause arguments.
    I find it impossible to believe that the 7 million people in California that voted for Prop 8 are all viciously anti-gay, homophobic bigots. Clearly the issue upsets people at some deep, possibly evolutionary level, and I wish the government would just get the hell out of the marriage business so we can all go home. (Alas, were that to happen, I expect there would be lawsuits against churches that refused to marry gays. Some people are just around to cause trouble.)
    Having macheted my way through the opinion, I do see one issue with it, and it is an issue that many people have warned about. Having based the nut of his argument on the application of the equality clause to the unions called marriage, there is simply no supportable reason why marriage cannot be constructed in other forms as well as same-sex. One could do a “search and replace” on his opinion and it would function just as well for polygamy and incest. After all, those are also purely moral taboos, laws against them notwithstanding, as they do not cause harm to non-consenting third parties (if I may quote the Reverend Judge). I shall look on with interest the first time someone files suit for legalization of such marriages, and cites his ruling as precedent. Personally, I think people should be free to do as they wish in these matters as long as they don't scare the horses. Untangling the legal consequences in terms of inheritance, divorce, etcetera should keep a battalion of lawyers busy for some time to come, though.
    (As a side note, I'm impressed what a good job the MSM did hiding the fact the judge is gay. I only stumbled across that interesting bit of information while doing some research. Does this matter? Probably not, although it could have been responsible for some of his weaker points relating to bigotry.)

  7. Two things that really annoy me about this are the way the pro-GM people have acted.

    I was willing to vote for it if it every came up (I was out of state when Prop 8 happened) but the way the losers acted has really soured me on the whole thing. I am not opposed to GM, but I no longer feel like going out of my way to support it either.

    The way they try to make everyone who doesn't jump for joy for GM out to be hateful bigots and nazis is appalling. People have plenty of good reasons to disagree and not hate gays. The way gays and lefties have tried to ruin businesses and attack the Mormons for supporting Prop 8 turns my stomach. It's similar to the way they went after Carrie Prejean just because she said she was for traditional marriage, They did a Sarah Palin number on her.

    It goes beyond a few bitchy queens. And it parallels the disturbing stuff we're seeing on the Ground Zero Mosque. The media and elites have decided anyone against it is a racist xenophobe hate-monger. It doesn't matter that there are plenty of solid arguments against it including that it is a political statement and radicals seem to be behind it. Planting a flag on the area these same radicals destroyed. We're letting fascists shut down debate. Not good.

    Second issue is what I said, and you also outlined. We're opening Pandora's box when we allow the constant nullification of the people's will. Just because they won this time doesn't mean it will last. Political winds shift and let's say radical Muslims get Sharia law after hammering home the you must agree with us or you're bigots argument like the gays did here. And then they decide that Gays must be executed like they are in many Middle Eastern countries.

    Tolerance of bullies leads to problems. When they get their way, ugly stuff happens.We can't let thugs of any stripe dictate the rules. Mob rule indeed!

  8. I absolutely agree. I voted against Prop 8. But I was appalled at the response of the usual suspects, including the media. Their intolerance of other points of view is getting extremely tiresome and could lead to a violent pendulum swing back, in time. The cowardice of the people involved is also illuminating. Just as one guy with a blog can shut down Comedy Central, the fact that the anti-Prop 8 people harassed the Mormons and ignored the blacks in Central LA shows how this is all a self-important act of PC by moral cowards.
    As you have said, the liberals are the new conservatives.

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